We carried out a set of 1 on 1 conversations to better understand peoples' experiences of inclusion and belonging in the web3 space. For this conversation, Princesa meets REM an educator, music artist and curator in web3, working for QMODA.
Princesa:
Welcome, welcome. Thank you for your time, thank you for coming.
REM:
Thank you.
Princesa:
Can you tell us your pronouns and your specific occupations within the web3 space?
REM:
For sure. So I'm REM. I use they/them pronouns or Xe/Xem. Either pronunciation is fine. And then in web3 I'm a music artist, so I release music NFTs, I do community building and I do moderation work with Catalog works and then I also do music curation and community building with Kubota, which is the queer museum of digital art.
Princesa:
OK, that's really cool. How long have you been involved with crypto and web3?
REM:
So crypto? I've been involved since 2020, but web3 on the more NFT side, I'd say February or March of last year. So 2021.
Princesa:
OK, cool. That's awesome. That's a really long time, so I'm really glad that you made time for this interview.
REM:
Period, thank you again for having me.
Princesa:
So the first question is going to be about what your experience was like when you entered web3. So how did you feel when you entered this space? What was it like to find a community that resonated with you and how were the people who you were interacting with?
REM:
So when I first got into the NFT side of web3, it was a little overwhelming even though the space, in my opinion, had a bit more of a slower pace, in comparison to right now. But it was still overwhelming if you didn't have a strong crypto background. At that time, the empty space was very centred towards visual art, 3D art and it was very centred towards the more like PFP project style that loves making an investment and flipping a project versus you know with music NFTs for example, you can collect a one of one and maybe that person may hold it forever, maybe they won’t, you don’t know. The value has definitely shifted I feel with all NFTs, not just music. So at first it was a little overwhelming because it was very, very financially centred and there was a lot of terms flying around. You know, like getting the lingo down and making connections was also a little bit harder because there wasn't a lot of communities and this is whether around the time Zora hadn’t even been fully released to the public yet. So actual communities were still being built and it compares differently to now where you know you can find a community somewhere and really get in depth and ask questions about the terminology. The marketplace is the different resources of websites you know. So it was pretty overwhelming and took a lot of considered efforts at the time.
Princesa:
OK, yeah.
REM:
That's why I had left the space around summer time and started up another collective outside of web3, but I came back in September. Just 'cause I was still interested in crypto and my spirit was just pulling at me to be like hey this is something you need to come back to. And that's when I went to Zorotopia, which is a good community that I still recommend to people who are coming in this space and need that extra type of support who may not be very like gung ho at immersing themselves. Also it might not be a drive thing, It may also be a time thing you know people still have lives outside of Twitter and discord. So yeah, having that type of community where you can pop in and learn and contribute to your camp was better than when I had first come into it and everything was still kind of building and establishing, it was just really hectic.
Princesa:
That makes a lot of sense. Ok you really gave me a lot of perspective just now and I'm just honestly absorbing how quickly that shift must have happened.
REM:
Very, very fast.
Princesa:
How does it feel now looking back? On the space being slower moving, how do you feel about the renaissance feeling we have going on now?
REM:
I'd say it's ecstatic and I feel excited because I really feel like the the long term like community builders are in this space now and that makes me hopeful just because, it's a lot to absorb, and there's still people now that have been in the space, like when I came back around the same time that I've been talking to recently, and they're kind of like, yeah, I realise that maybe with web3 and crypto, the more technological side is just not for me. But, they really enjoy the community part of it and they really enjoy the connections that they make with it. And you know, I've seen that way more now versus what was happening at first. So it makes me more excited because I'm like OK this means that we've set the foundation and that we can continue to grow it. We could continue to connect to continue to build that, we've established a flow, so this make me excited and really happy to keep pushing and you know, keep finding different sectors of the web3 world that I can help in and that resonates with me and to keep pushing forward.
Princesa:
Yeah for sure, you are one of the main people who I can think of who is a pro at finding these resources and sending them to people and helping people to find their tribe. But what was that like for you? When did you start feeling like you had a community and what was the process of getting in to that like?
REM:
Maybe towards the end of the year last year 'cause I had a lot of personal stuff going on outside of like web3... actually I was speaking to Jayden about how you and Jamie really supported me and that was kind of the grounding and the foundation of an actual human connection that made me want to continue to find those types of relationships, and that feeling of, hey, you know, these people really will ride for you. You know it doesn't have to be talking every single day, every single minute to prove that they you know, respect you and want to see you grow up. It’s just like certain moments or a connection. That made me realize like, oh ok, I need to just go ahead settle in here and build here because I just got my reflection of the fact that it's possible and these people actually trust you and will help you out.
Princesa:
Wow, that is so heartwarming like, I need a moment. That is so beautiful.
REM:
Yeah, I was just like literally an hour ago talking to my friend about his experience of him coming into this space and we actually went through a lot! You know, what I was going through at that time, he was actually going through the same exact thing at the same exact time. Which is another crazy thing, these synchronicities and the way everybody kind of has been aligned with each other pushing together. Which is another thing, that makes me optimistic and hopeful to keep building and keeps me motivated. Because you know I just didn't see that before with people and the connections I was making in music, but also just as a human being. Outside of business and work I just was not seeing that in the people, I didn't see that mindset and so you know y'all resonated with that mindset so I was like, OK, this is where I need to be pushing at.
Princesa:
Woe, that's resonating with me. Which brings me to my next question. Which is specifically because I already understand this about you. I understand why you, me, and Jamie got along, but just for the sake of the research of the project. What are your specific needs as they relate to the intersections of your identity?
REM:
That's that's a good question, I guess just patience and recognising that I don't have to always be the one that is speaking and pioneering in order for some type of change,
or you know, for the change that I want to manifest it to happen. Sometimes I like playing the supporter role, allowing myself to be able to play. It just really means a lot because for a long time I feel like, growing up, I did a lot of the supporting. So because I felt like I needed to make a space with people and the only way to do that is I have to be the head and that showed me that one need I have is to be able to just allow myself to just be myself and not have to put all of my stories or experiences out to the world in order to feel like I have value or in order to feel that I deserve the good things that happen to me. So something I want to push out to people is that you don't have to trauma dump or put your entire life in front of people in order to know that your intersections are valid or to know that you are amplified, that people care about your voice. That's what I need more of around me. Not so much of like "oh I'm trans so I need to tell all my sob stories in order to feel a value or to feel that I can even contribute or that I deserve a space at the table". Like no, if you live your life you live accordingly and you should just be able to put out what you wanna put out. You don't have to tell your story order to show up and be an advocate for trans people or be that blueprint for whatever type of intersection that you have. You just have to be yourself. You don't have to tell everything to be at that point. So that's what I do more of or what I would like to see more of with people, intersections, and also just resonating that with myself.
Princesa:
Yeah, for sure, I agree wholeheartedly. The phrase that came to mind about what you were saying specifically, and I'm telling you this because we need the language to express it to other people. To be trauma informed, is to express what you've been through without saying what you've been through. To assume that everybody else around you has also been through something and somebody in the room can relate to you in some way. It's just a matter of finding out the words to say that resonate with that person. So y'all can communicate nonverbally mostly about like "yeah, I went through that", you know what I mean?
REM:
Yeah and I agree as well, because you know sometimes, when you go through things even as an adult, some people never find those words to explain what happened to them until they actually process it. So it becomes the only way that they know how to explain it is in the way that is this explicit, oversharing type of ordeal. That's another thing with Protein of why that educational aspect is so important to me, because I feel like some people would just be so much more confident and be so much more patient with themselves if they had the right words to explain or to express. So maybe some people don't even express through words, like I was just watching a kid on YouTube, he has autism and he communicates through beats, he's nonverbal, and I'm so excited to see how he continues to grow and the different ways that he will choose to speak. It's just a matter of getting on that deeper level, educating people that everybody is different. Everybody has a different style in a different method and a different processing mechanism of how they just exist and move through life. So I feel like if we educate on that as well, that everybody is different, we just gotta be patient and take the time to understand or adjust to it. Sometimes it doesn't even need full understanding, sometimes we should just allow that person to express and that's enough. You don't have to overstep, you don't have to over explain, sometimes it's just about being there and learning how someone communicates, that can move mountains for some people to be heard. So defnitely, let's amplify education, 100% wholeheartedly.
Princesa:
I completely agree, everybody does have their own ways of expressing themselves and when we allow for that educational experience to happen, because you to me are a very non judgmental person, you're very honest and straightforward but when you do say how you feel about something and it's negative, I don't ever sense any malice coming from you. You genuinely come from a place of trying to help, and that's why I feel like you're so important to this space.
REM:
Thank you, you have very kind words. Thank you very much.
Princesa:
Of course. So I'm feeling a lot that you personally need patience and I'm glad that you have the language to speak on that for yourself, because a lot of us really do need patience, especially trans people, especially black and brown people, all marginalised people in general definitely need patience from each other and it's our responsibility to give that, but it's also our responsibility to ask for it, so I super appreciate that you said that. Another question that I have, which you already touched on a little bit, but I just wanted to know if there's anything else that you see as missing to make this experience more inclusive for the large number of people who are trying to enter it currently?
REM:
I think what Protein is doing now for Season 2 and getting those underrepresented groups and people who are already pioneering, having that lead by example and having these groups showing that they're out here doing these things because I feel outside of web3 and even outside of Web2, just in the world as a whole, sometimes not seeing someone experience something may have you not feeling confident to push forward. So for example, being trans I had to fight with myself for a long time like with music because in the mainstream commercial world of music, there's not a lot of trans representation. For a long time I felt kind of upset at myself and I felt like I should limit myself at that time because I didn't see anyone that was doing it, so I felt that it wasn't possible. So that's why amplifying groups that are already starting and pioneering and giving us much support as you can, that is what I feel needs to be seen. If there's a trans person having an event or showing up to that space, even if it's just for five minutes, showing that support and showing that this person is doing it. I feel like that will make people come in and feel comfortable. And also, Protein's already doing it with having the educational resources like the WTF bot, you know there are tools now, but it's just a matter of supporting the people that need these tools. So while other people come in, the blueprints are already there, now it's just how do you do it in your style? How do you communicate? How do you understand something? So the support is definitely what is most needed right now.
Princesa:
That's so true to me. That resonates for sure, and seeing through lines as far as everything that you've already stated, to education. Education also comes with representation because if a person who looks like us who has experienced something like we have and they've made it further than we have, they can teach us in a way that somebody who doesn't look like us has trouble expressing. So I super appreciate that all of your neurons are definitely communicating with each other, you feel me? Of course, you don't have to share specific negative experiences as we already expressed, but when you have experienced something negative, have they shown any indication of change in the future? Through communication or mediation? Or have you experienced anything that has just been a standstill kind of conflict? What has that looked like for you?
REM:
I feel like my experience is just through life, like the universe is gonna do the leg work for me, so I don't have to chase after something and if I go through a negative experience I take that as a learning lesson, that something is going to change. I had that expectation already that something is going to change or I'm learning something, I'm being educated by the universe codes, that's just how my life is set up. My experiences are going to teach me something and I think that was one of the hugest learning lessons in my life that I can't hold an expectation on something and get anxious on trying to get something to come out a certain way because the world and the universe and the energy of my life is going to already do it for me. It's no longer like I have to be super analytical or if it doesn't turn out this way I beat myself up 'cause especially growing up as a black woman, you are put in this box by society to be loud or obnoxious. It goes down to stereotypes of having to adjust your hair or code switching or doing stuff like that. So for all of my life it was like this expectation, these fake expectations set and I put my brain in that for so long. Once I grew up and matured, I kept having cycles repeat, I was like how do I really break these things? Why do these negative experiences keep happening? I thought maybe if I change my perspective, just let go and let the universe happen how it was supposed to happen, maybe I could just be a little bit more happy. In turn, when I started releasing those expectations and releasing those negative experiences and allowing them to define my soul, is when everything started to turn around. So my negative experiences have been lessons and they continue to be, experiences and lessons. That's the only expectation I can have for them.
Princesa:
You put that so beautifully, you're brilliant. Especially being so young and you already knowing this.
REM:
On being young, I'm a type of person where if the universe tells me something or just the world or somebody gives me a reflection and it makes me wince or I question it, I just listen. Another thing I'm thankful for growing up as a black woman is you get forced to listen all the time and so I feel like now I'm grown up it's my time to speak up and to speak up for others, amplify voices and amplify myself instead of just being the listener or just being told what to do. You just get tired of that eventually, especially when you have big dreams. It gets so exhausting and that's another thing with people coming into space, why it's important for people to know their capacity and know their boundaries because it can get tiring keeping up with everything, especially because you're learning. You're always actively learning in this space and it can get tiring like trying to balance web3 with Web2 and also your personal life. It can become so much and then also when you've been used to a space where you've been limited and been told how to do something and now you're coming in to this space where you can explore and build what you want, it's a whole mentality change.
So l really appreciate your words again, it very much means a lot and I just want to help people in this space, I want to help those people that have been trapped in that mindset.
That mindset of just feeling like all you can do is listen or support... no, you have a voice, amplify that, use it, speak up for the people you believe in. Do whatever it is that you wanna do. Don't limit yourself, if you only listen to other people and you put yourself in a box, you will stay there. That's how the brain works scientifically and spiritually, that's just how life is set up. So yeah, I'm young, but I also listen when stuff happens to me because I don't want to be in that box forever 'cause I've seen how it affects people. Like my family growing up, I see the traps and I see the little cracks and the cycles and I don't want to repeat that. I don't wanna live like that and I want to help them get out of that. This warms my heart because I've been helping my family as well. I just took my mom to breakfast the other day and we've been able to get closer. It's really great being able to connect with my family again. It's really been life changing having that education to be able to pass on to them. With crypto and web3 there's financial things I'm learning with investments which I'm able to tell my parents about now. They're making changes and I'm really glad that I could help them do that. I'm saying that's what I want to do, that's what makes me happy. That's what makes me smile.
Princesa:
No it was comprehensive and that was amazing. That was really good I'm glad you said all of that. I'm really glad that you've been connecting with your family lately. You spoke on something that I don't think I've heard in this project before... but I've seen a lot of people are speaking about the ways that being in this space has helped them. Just to backpedal a little bit, a lot of us are breaking generational cycles which is one thing, but the other thing is breaking generational cycles by healing, but also getting to a place with your parents where they are willing to learn from you. You've been talking about education about learning your lessons, and it seems like you come from a family who's also willing to do the same with you and that's just beautiful.
REM:
Yeah, I'm very proud of that, having the family that I have. As you get older it can get harder to change those habits and everything but I'm glad that they even see that this is an opportunity and they are open minded in that. It's not just my parents, also my grandma who I see often, when I was going to Denver for this show, I told her about it and she lit up. I feel like web3 has allowed me to come back with my family more. Last year I stopped talking to my mom for a whole 6 months because I needed that space to learn, take care of myself and be my own human being without constantly listening to what my family members have done in the past and expect me to carry on as my future. That was the way that the universe had that happen. So now being able to come back and not just help on a financial way but also in a metaphysical way, on a spiritual level help them open their mind in the way that they move through life. That just astronomically changed for me. I was talking to my dad and he was asking me about Catalog and asking me how I got into it and how I found it and telling my mom about what I was doing. It's no longer like you need to do this or them trying to put me in a box or trying to show me the paths they went down. I feel like now, they see me doing what I want to do, how it's helping me and how the universe had paid me back for that. My parents are very Christian. So the fact that even my mom is opening up her eyes that doing something else aside from a nine to five is possible, like maybe starting up business, she is now opening up to it. All of my family members are opening their eyes to all this stuff outside of what I've been locked into for past XYZ amount of years. I can open up my eyes and actually live again and that's just like such a freeing experience in of itself. So at any opportunity I get where I can help my family friends get into crypto and stuff, I can't say anything else other than that I'm thankful to be able to keep doing this. It just motivates me to keep working and keep helping people on their journey so that they can live and be who they are versus what they've been told. I'm just very happy about that and I'm really glad that you've opened up this conversation because that is extremely important. Seeing the impact outside of Twitter, Discord and computer screens. What is it doing for you outside of the digital world you know? Is it actually helping you? If it is, amazing, congratulations.
Princesa:
Exactly yes, yes. RT everything that you're saying. What you just said about what web3 is doing for us outside of Twitter is so spot on, because not only are we meeting each other in real life and like you said earlier, it meant something to you when you found the first relationships that were person to person connections rather than just surface level. That meant something to you and for you to bring that energy to people, you already have those person to person relationships. It seems like you're spreading it to your loved ones and throughout web3. That is what's so special about this space and to do that it takes a lot of gratitude for what we're actually doing here. It takes observation and work, seriously you've done so much and it seems like you take advantage of every second that you're given. You're really just grateful to be here which I love.
REM:
Yes, 100%. I feel like the preparing stages of coming back into web3, around the Zoratopia heavy days was when I really started to respect my time and I realised how important this is. I was just speaking to someone about how they are always on time, they'll show up right on the money, always ready on time or sometimes show up a little earlier and I really admired that. When I was younger I was slow behind on things, late to show up to meetings, so I always admire people who show up right on time and my brain could never process it. So I asked this person why they are always on time and they said "because I respect others' hearts just as much as my my own". I was like whoa what like wait, wait a minute and just like that it really cemented in my brain and caused me to reflect on how much I respect my own time, my own energy and setting those boundaries with myself. But also how this equates to other people, if I don't respect their time how can I ever respect my own? How can I invest in other people when I don't have boundaries for myself? So web3 really made me hone in on boundaries and time management, updating people and being very transparent. I needed to have that lesson in order to be prepared for this space because you're essentially learning everything on your own. Yeah you have the communities, yes you have these resources, but it's a lot of legwork that you have to do yourself. You have to ask yourself, where do I want to be? What do I want to contribute to this community? Why am I even in web3? It takes a lot of like you were saying, a lot of inner work. So that was such a big lesson to me and catapulted my success in my connections in the web3 space because I respected myself just as much as I respect the people around me.
Princesa:
Yeah, web3 is really a mirror and I appreciate a lot of the people like yourself, who treat web3 as a sacred space to learn and grow. It kind of feels like as artists, we are in daycare compared to what the rest of the music world looks like. We have like caring supervision telling us "OK, make sure if you get this job to make sure you're asking for equity", know what I mean? It's so beautiful and blessed that we have that. Not everybody does and it's not like we have it for superiority reasons, but simply because we have a lot of the same friends and people we resonate with. People who value themselves and value this space and value the technology and the art that we're making, which I feel is really beautiful.
REM:
Yes, I feel exactly the same, I definitely feel like there is more cheerleaders who want to see people just genuinely succeed in the space. And will share tips and information to just help out and not just to make money. People encouraging you to just put up NFTs and saying they will just sell, but on something like TikTok it's like you need to post three times and you need to make sure it's high quality content so people follow you, it just superficial. I'm saying with my art now in web3, I feel actually connected with the people that I interact with. It's just a deeper connection, I feel like people come into the space caring about your art and actually caring about who you are. People want to make things together for the sake of making things together, versus "let's make this and get 5000 followers". I really think this space is beautiful for that.
Princesa:
For sure, you said word. So this is kind of more about the day to day. How do you find it in terms of working and collaborating and compensation? We talked about how we feel about it, but what does it look like for you?
REM:
So day to day a lot of my work is online, so I make sure that I also budget time to go outside. You know, breathe in air, touch grass, that's an important part of my day. I wake up, get ready, eat, work online, communicate with people. Then there's usually a moment where I'm gunna take my self care time, take my breaks. I also take baby breaks, like 5 minutes, to just sit and focus on breathing, this really helps if I have a tighter schedule where I don't have time to go out more than an hour. During the day is mostly computer work, talking to people, being on meetings and calling. After 6pm is when I go off of computer mode, I'll maybe hop in spaces or go to my grandmas house and vibe with her and spend family time, then join the spaces of the night and connect with people and vibe for the rest of the day.
Princesa:
That is the life. I remember in your earlier stages, that was a process for you. You took time away from Twitter for a while and then came back, with a job, that was amazing!
REM:
Yeah I'm taking a Twitter break today, I literally signed out of Twitter just because it can become very overwhelming. I feel like with discord you could really sift through the places you want to be. You can leave certain communities and have 4/5 that you're really contributing to. Versus Twitter, where there's loads of stuff outside of web3. Discord for me, is community building. That's where you really hone in and schedule your events.
That's where that building goes on, whereas Twitter can become very overwhelming very fast, especially with Spaces too, because then it's your verbal energy too. So taking Twitter breaks is very important to me and part of my schedule too. It took some time to get into that and having COVID and that period of time allowed me to hone in on what I really want. What do I want my day to look like? How do I want to look? what do I want to prioritise? Where do I want this energy to go? Before it was like I just need to be everywhere because I need to speak up everywhere and I love being everywhere but you also have to respect your body, you gotta respect your family members, you know, your real life. Your friends, they also need nourishing, they also need attention. So having Twitter breaks and knowing your boundaries is very, very important. This what I try to make people get in the space, like Twitter is the main hub, but take your time and figure out what you want to do and what communities you want to be in, what you want to dedicate your time to. If you don't do that inner work you will easily get lost in the sea of web3. You could lose some mental stability, just jumping in the ocean and not really knowing what direction you're going in. You really gotta prepare before your swim, or make sure you've got your mask on. Make sure you know where you're at and that you do your checklist before doing that deep jump, because you can get lost real quick. So I'm really glad that I have that moment to recuperate because it can be really fast.
Princesa:
Yes, absolutely. Thank you for walking me through that.
REM:
You’re welcome.
Princesa:
Yeah, that was super necessary for me to understand about you. I super appreciate that. You're the best. OK, so I feel like you talked to me about the shift of the pace of the web3 world. Within that shift, did you notice anything change about diversity, equality and inclusion in web3?
REM:
I feel like it ties back to those points of people not being afraid and becoming kind of like the blueprints and having that expression alongside the education because I feel like there was a lot of education... you know there was a lot of words. There was terminology flying around like "Genesis project this and that", it was just like OK? I feel like now there is that expression and that is what I feel made the shift referring to diversity and inclusion. There became a lot of expression once the education was digestible. It felt like we now knew how to utilise these tools to speak up for what we want to do, and there was a lot on that. There was a time a couple months ago with the person coming out being transphobic with the ENS and I really feel like that was also a shift, not just for web3 but just as a whole. I don't think I've seen people show up like that before, making spaces to try and talk about it, being like "we're not tolerating that baby I don't know what you're gonna do here". It's a lot to stand on the front lines and say "no, we're not gonna tolerate someone who's ignorant and not caring", it's a whole lot of energy to be on the forefront. I feel like with web3 people, there's always more room for people to be amplified. I really like what's going on right now and I like what I've seen so far. There are efforts coming in now specifically towards trans people and POC that I really am excited to see come to life and really open up spaces for more groups. Because we need it, it's constantly gonna be there. There's never enough amplification that can go around. Those are some of the shifts I'm very, very proud of to see in the web3 space.
Princesa:
Absolutely, oh my god, you're so right, you really painted that picture. We used to talk about this every week that we need this and unfortunately it did take people seeing that hate and being reminded that that still happens in web3. I feel like a lot of conversations that at least our circle has about web3, we have to kind of unpack and be like "let's not accept this to be a utopia". And moments like that really, really, really teach us that as a collective. I'm very grateful that you and I as trans people are in spaces where folks prioritise that when they see it. Teaching somebody about your pronouns and then seeing that it kind of makes stuff click for people who don't experience it.
REM:
Yeah, like if I amplify what you were saying about people showing up and the point about utopia, it's like people are still people in this space. We are still people at the end of the day and we all do the same normal human functions. That includes our empathy, we still have to empathise for other people and realise everybody is different and that everybody communicates differently. Everybody is on a different journey. You can't control any of that, and I think that's another lesson that I was very grateful to bring with me into the web3 space. Having that respect to take the time to learn how somebody else does something 'cause you can learn something about yourself. Maybe somebody else teaches you a different way to produce or somebody teaches you something differently about yourself, something that you've been hiding for years. It's so great to see that somebody else does it too or experiences it too. With the trans and queer community specifically in this space I'm seeing a lot of like people just being like "I went through this and just connecting over that and bonding, making that connection. It's like the rose tinted glasses come off and somebody reminds us that we are all human and have different opinions. We stick up for each other 'cause we empathise and we get to know each other and let that guard down.
That's why in this space, everybody is building their own world, building their own experience and it may not even be that huge or that deep of a thought, but somebody is entering the space to contribute that. That's a different voice that may provide something entirely different. I think that's another thing in the web3 space that really needs to be expressed more is how different everybody's voices are and how unique somebody's expression can be, it doesn't have to be in an artistic way, it could be in an analytical way. I just really like that. There are groups specifically focusing on how do we amplify this new person? How do we bring in this new person? How do we make this experience safe? I just really appreciate that that is even a discussion that's being had because before it wasn't like that. Now it's like, how do we allow a person to speak up and stand in their own way to fight against you? We try to know injustice and you know people who are being inclusive and who are not.
Princesa:
That's amazing, yeah the solution based thinking definitely takes a certain kind of person to enter the room and to bring that, but all it takes is one person.
REM:
Yeah it's that one time and that's why I'm glad these conversations are happening because it just takes just one person doing something for it to spark it in somebody else. Outside of web3 I just don't see that, it just feels like influencer mentality is like showing people how to do it in a competitive way, versus in web3 it's like the world is your oyster for real! Like having a genuine excitement for what people are doing and to see new ways of thinking, designing, financials or whatever it may be. It just takes one conversation, one experience one, one chance to spark and go down a whole entire different pathway of success, whatever that may mean to somebody.
Princesa:
Exactly on that note, I'm going to stop the recording, you've done amazing.
REM:
Thank you.
