A public group discussion sharing experiences of belonging in digital spaces.
Kes:
Hello! Welcome to the Protein Discord, it's really nice to have you here, thanks so much for being here and taking the time to be with us for this discussion. We're really excited to be hosting our next Protein Forum today. This one feels a bit special as it's being taken over by our latest event series called Anecdotal Archives to allow us to discuss inclusion and belonging in digital spaces, much like this one. I wanted to start by saying thank you to anyone whose joined any of our discussions so far. We've been hosting them on Twitter space but thought we would try hosting this final one in our Discord. The conversations have been so, so nice and we really love this space we've creating in our community to have these conversations together. One of our members, Tina, who was in the first discussion highlighted the similarity to what we're doing with feminist consciousness raising circles and that's really stuck with me and I'd like to think that's what we're doing by hosting these, having digital versions of those and carrying on this important tradition.
So let's recap on what the Anecdotal Archives project is and why we're doing it. It all started when one of our member babyguava AKA Princesa, from conversations we were having in the Discord about inclusion, came forward and proposed this project. Since then we've been collaborating together to run this project as part of our DEI within the membership team in the Protein Discord.
So I'll let Princesa go into a bit more detail about where the project came from!
Princesa:
Thank you Kes! That was a beautiful intro. So I'm Princesa, the Anecdotal Archives project is a research project with the intention of learning and understanding the many facets of inclusivity within web3 throughout all parts of it growth process for different kinds of people. We'd like to understand peoples' needs and how we can start working together to fulfil the needs of people working in the space and work towards the future being more inclusive. We wanted to create a space to have these conversations together so we've formed this space with the intention of intersectionality. Throughout this process we've prioritised the voices of women, trans women, non-binary people and BIPOC women. But every has been welcome to listen.
[setting up the room]
Kes:
Amazing thank you Princesa! So the 2 previous Anecdotal Archives events were focusing on experiences of entering web3, followed by a second talk discussing the experiences of working and collaborating in web3. So for this talk we'd like to quickly recap on those points, as we've got people here today who we haven't heard from before, so we'd like everybody to have the chance to share their views. After that, we'd like to discuss what can we actually do together in the space to make it feel more inclusive and imagine what that could look like. So everybody make yourself at home in the Discord and we can get started.
[more room set up]
So some of you have met me before, my name is Kes and I'm one of our Community Managers at Protein, focusing on events and DEI. I'm also doing an Ma in Internet Equalities, which is why I'm so passionate about making digital spaces safer. I've really enjoyed collaborating with Princesa on this project. Would you like to go next Princesa?
Princesa:
Yeah, I'm a multidisciplinary artist, I do a lot of writing, research and I do a lot of work in the wellness sphere, trying to bridge the gap between wellness and community care, as well as making music.
Kes:
Ok cool, enough about us! We're most excited today about having our amazing panellists with us. It would be great to hear a bit about you all and what you're up to, Alice would you like to go first?
Alice:
Sure! I'm Alice, I'm a creative technologist currently working in branding and advertising. I went to art school but could also do a bit of coding and a bit of hardware, so I'm just mashing up the two sides. I'm also building out my own projects that focus on technology and intimacy. I've done a lot of talks, workshops, hackathons, about how building our own software and hardware can connect us more meaningfully and mindfully. In terms of web3, I'm part of NilDAO which is an NFT launchpad and marketplace launching soon. In that, I've been describds as the DAO mother which I think is quite cute.
REM:
Hi everyone, my name is REM, I'm a musical visionary, creative being, a builder and a designer. I do music curation and community building for the Queer Museum of Digital Art and I also do moderation at Catalog, the music record store in the web3 world. I do a lot of DAO work and I'm super excited to connect with everyone on stage and about my identity and my experience.
Parker:
Thank you so much for having me! An honour to be here with you all. Love what Protein are doing so I'm excited to be a part of this discussion. I'm Parker, I'm currently working as head of community at FinTech Collective's DeFi fund, an early stage venture capital firm. I'm also on the founding team of Boys Club, a social club and soon to be DAO that's working to onboard the next 1 million women and non binary people into crypto and web3. Aside from that, during my free time I love techno, brutalist architecture, travelling and cooking. I'm really looking forward to this conversation with you all!
Kes:
Thanks so much for all of your lovely intros, you're all doing such amazing things! So I wanted to start off by asking you all how you experience of entering the web3 space was? How was it finding your communities?
REM:
My experience coming into web3, it was February/March last year (2021), by this I mean web3 and NFTs, I got into crypto a bit before that, at that point I really was just trying to understand what was going on in the space, joining Clubhouse rooms. I didn't start minting or doing any community building until September/October last year when LATASHÁ hosted the Zorotopia, where I met babyguava AKA Princesa and loads of other musicians and artists in the space. This really helped with having a group and familiarity that continued everyday. When I first came into the space it was really a Wild West, everything was a free for all. I watched Zora and Catalog be born so there were no major marketplaces at this point and on the music side of things and the virtual art world, it was really starting to pop off. So having this community and being able to speak to people every single day was something that helped me a lot and helped me feel safe and included. It also helped with learning the lingo, because in web3 there's a lot of crazy terms and new words are being created everyday. I feel like having that group and having those connections led to me finding my soul tribe or family in the web3 world. This was really beneficial for me.
Kes:
Yeah it was such a Wild West and still is in a lot of ways I feel. Parker how was your experience?
Parker:
Yeah it was exciting and to echo a similar sentiment it was very overwhelming, there's so much information to learn and understand and so many different axis points. Which is great but sometimes you feel like there's so many things you could learn and you don't know where to start. After creating more of a structure for myself and finding the places in crypto and web3 that I was most interested in, that's definitely when I started to dive deeper into my learning. I have a few close friends which really helped me out when I first started. Really I was just meeting people on Discord and Twitter a lot. Twitter is also a great place to learn to figure out what other people are thinking about and talking about in the space. I definitely felt like the crypto community was very welcoming and kind to me, I remember being surprised by how friendly and casual everyone was which is really nice and refreshing still to this day.
Kes:
I feel you on that, even though it can be hard to find your space and your community, when you do find them, everyone is really supportive, generally. What about you Alice how was your experience?
Alice:
I'm pretty new to the space, I fell into the sinkhole in September last year. The person who first got me curious about the space was Zoe Schaman who is an amazing strategist on Twitter and she was the first person who made the intention of the space very clear and tangible. Seeing someone say it in a language I could understand was really useful, especially as people have said, amongst all the jargon and lingo and the fact that it's a really technical industry. I also leaned on my one friend who works in crypto who has been in the space for many years, having that one person was a really important way in for me. At first, the idea of the permisionlessness of the space, how you can rock up to any conversation at any time, felt quite alien to me at first, it felt quite scary and I guess Britishly quite embarrassing and awkward. There's definitely a muscle you need to train to be able to enter and push through a space like that, just feeling ok to put yourself into conversations, which didn't come very naturally to me. The first communities I entered were Protein and Boys Club, so that's nice. Eventually having a bit of a goal, so when I joined NilDAO, having a mission within the space allowed me to go deeper within it and get more involved with all the different sides of it.
Kes:
Amazing thanks so much for sharing. It's so cool you're also part of Boys Club too!
Princesa:
So we've talked about our experiences of entering the space, so now we're going to pivot to asking how are you finding being in the space? It changes every day for a lot of us, so how are you finding web3, today?
Parker:
I'm going through this weird period right now where I feel really overwhelmed with information, kind of like how I felt when I first started, but now I actually understand what is going on, but it's more just the constant stream of info whether that's Discord servers, Twitter, all the newsletters I'm subscribed to. I think I really need to hone in on my curation because it's a lot. I also go through these periods with Twitter where I spend a lot of time on there, which is important for my work so that i'm on the ground seeing what people are talking about and different narratives going on in the ecosystem, but then I have other periods where I completely don't go on or check any notifications or DMs, which has been what's happening the last week. So if anyone has any tips for managing all of this information... I really wanna be up to date but it's so easy to get burnt out with info overload and optionality.
Kes:
Thank you Parker, I also struggle with this as I'm sure we all do, I've tried lots of different things and I'm not sure what works yet. REM, how are you feeling in web3 today and in response to Parker how do you feel about managing the info overload?
REM:
Parker I just went through that same WTF is going on feeling last week, I literally got burnt out. I was sitting looking at the computer and my brain was like no I can't do it anymore I need a rest I need a break. It was perfect timing because it was the weekend... and I'm in so many music Discord and people are always asking me how I do it, so I took this moment to be introspective and think ok... there are 2 different mindsets you can have in this space, one is the productivity mindset which is like being in every single space getting every single route and source of information. This contradicts against the other mindset which is the presence mindset. The presence mindset is about showing up authentically, actually engaging and actually providing value to these spaces which you're joining with intention versus I'm just in these spaces just because I can. Erasing that FOMO by being in every single thing. So I took all this into account when I had my break moment and I went to my computer and thought our of these communities, where I have been putting my energy, contributing the most and really feeling connected to? I sifted through there and whatever I was not as engaged with, I left. Because I realised I can't be present in everything, you can't. You gotta find those communities and groups that are really your bread and butter, whatever you're really passionate about, what really inspired you. That's another thing about web3 and wellness, people need to talk more about, are you really in these groups because they inspire you or is it like I need this information, I need this Alpha? But then your energy is everywhere so how are you really authentically showing up and maintaining your presence when it's just go, go, go all the time. So I really recommend the next time you have 2 or 3 days to rest, go through your Twitter, not just web3 stuff but also Instagram, anything that people have access to you and your energy with, really say am I really inspired and showing up presently here? If not, you've gotta move on so you can make space for the things that are meant for you and align with you to come in and blossom.
Alice:
Wow that was extremely useful. I experience the same thing and I think I experience it in cycles, the number of Discords I'm in or the amount of Twitter accounts I'm following builds up gradually then I Marie Kondo everything, asking myself does this thing actually spark joy or does it cause fear or anxiety? Then I have a clear out and then it starts again. Having that mental space, it brings back my excitement about things which causes me to be a bit more trigger happy about things I'm following, so it comes in cycles. I think just being aware of that and then asking yourself is it being driven by good feelings or excitement, using that simple question to decide whether you're gunna stick around in a community is really useful. I think also for me, I was at the ETH Amsterdam conference just gone and actually meeting people IRL is really refreshing and important. It's very grounding to meet people not through the internet, because it's been one of the main ways I've been connecting with people for the past 2 years, so that was very refreshing.
Kes:
100% I think we really need to create options for ourselves of where to put our energy, setting these digital boundaries is so important, especially when considering feelings of belonging and inclusion. So I wanted to ask you all, have you noticed any shifts discussions belonging and inclusion in web recently? What has caused these shifts?
REM:
I think for me, the inclusion, especially with diversity as well, is making its mark right now. When I first came into the space as an artist wanting to release music and art, I had a QTBIPOC collective called Transparency and we were gunna convert it into a DAO and have it as a safer space and resource centre for queer and trans POC in this space and entering this space. At that time, there wasn't really... I don't wanna generalise and say there were no open and strong queer people because there were, but today, there's loads. Prism collective, Mutual Love which is going to focus on mutual aids efforts like funding queer peoples' gofundme through web3 and NFTs. A lot of projects I see in the space are also now making efforts to be more inclusive, openly, versus just in the back end. It seems for me that a lot of people are starting to get comfortable... because a lot of the wallets and things are here, people are more set up in their routine and so people are feeling more comfortable to tell their story and be open with those parts of themselves. I think the creatives in the space are coming in cementing themselves, and this was not really happening before, it was more people just trying to learn and find their footing and now that people have footing its like what do I wanna build? What do I wanna create? what groups do I wanna support? I feel like there was stuff that happened with people at Rainbow and some other things that happened recently... and the web3 community really shows up for each other. In web2, Being trans and non binary, sometimes it felt like a fight to even be heard, or when someone was disrespecting me it would feel invalidating when I would stick up for myself because that's how peoples' mentality were, but in the web3 space that doesn't happen, for me, specifically. I have not encountered that yet, people ask for my pronouns, it feels like a mentality shift where people actually just care about everybody's own unique expression and making sure everybody feels safe. I see that as people who feel like they have the tech side down, they have their flow, now they can continue to show up on the more human, interactive side. I also wanna amplify what Alice said about meeting people in person. This is something I feel is helping people lose the need to perceive in certain ways or put people in boxes, because you don't know who you're gunna actually meet because everything is digital. I don't have a picture of my face on my profile, a lot of people don't, so when you meet in person there's no way to know. People are using real photos less and less, because there's no big hold of expectation of perception. So I feel like the space is becoming more inclusive as more people are feeling more confident to speak up and be present for other people.
Alice:
Yeah I just wanted to say I love everything that REM just said! I can echo that now everybody feels more comfortable and the dust has settled, we can focus more on how people are actually showing up and being included in the space. Also on creators getting involved, that was how I got onboarded into the space and I see myself as coming in quite late in a way, but bringing in that extra dimension through the creative energy and diversity of thinking, bringing in the human side of things, that's been the main thing I've experienced from my short time in the space.
Kes:
Thanks so much for sharing, do you have anything you'd like to add Parker?
Parker:
Yeah, I think there's so many different dimensions. I don't think I've been in this space long enough to really understand how the culture has shifted but I definitely have noticed a lot more community groups popping up centred around supporting less represented people which is super important. People entering the space need to see themselves represented and a space which they can feel welcome and included. So that's been really amazing to see, in the past few months I've seen so many popping up and look forward to seeing more. On the other hand, I've been noticing particularly around women's groups in crypto... so Boys Club is focused on onboarding women and non-binary people to crypto, we have strong branding and try to bring in pop culture, I'm super proud of what we're building. But recently I've seen a few articles come out which refer to these women focused groups, including Boys Club, with a very negative tone and it's interesting because these articles are written by women. One was from Fox Media and one was in The Atlantic, and both were giving this tone of because these groups onboarding women into crypto are so traditionally feminine, girly or include pop culture... these articles really put them down and wrote them off and positioned it as a bad thing that identity is being utilised as a mechanism to capture a new type of community. The interesting tangent I'm seeing is the backlash against these affinity groups rising, particularly against women and I don't think it's necessarily even anti-feminist people who are doing this backlash, I think it's people who identify as feminists, these 2 women reports, which I think is really interesting. I'm wondering if anyone else has seen or noticed this? It's also like this sentiment on Twitter like we shouldn't be making a big deal about being a women in crypto, and not advancing the space truly because you are leveraging your identity so much. I'm interested to hear all of your thoughts?
Princesa:
Yeah, we've been having 1 on 1 talks as part of this project too and I guess primarily, I would like to honour the points you've raised. I'm also very curious about what this means and what might be the route of this perspective? I can't really speak to it in my own experience but what I think could be maybe fatigue is the root? Like what REM was saying earlier, in other spaces as a Trans person we feel in order for people to listen to and support us we have to speak to the negative things that we've been through and I've been through an in-person consciousness raising circle as ETH Denver, an onboarding DAO for women in crypto. And one of the women there did share a moment that they felt very excluded at an all-female crypto event. I guess what I'm saying is that it is a very private feeling but what people take from this feeling, this one instance of exclusion, they can start a particular narrative or initiative for them to express how they feel. It can also go in the other direction of people being really silent and not wanting to make it a thing.
Parker:
I go back and forth sometimes too. I'm obviously 100% behind all these groups I'm literally creating one, but I do understand the other side. Sometimes people meet me and ask me what is it like being a woman in crypto? I'm like i'm just myself, and of course I can speak on being a woman in crypto and of course I've had moments where I've experience things that are not just my experience and are universal, but I think the most compelling side to the narrative we've been talking about... personally I want to be recognised for who I am and my abilities first, not just the fact that I'm a woman. This balance of wanting to take pride in my identity, creating safe and inclusive spaced for other people but also not just wanting to be solely recognised or bucketed into a certain mental model just because of one identity trait I have. So it's this really interesting thing and I don't agree more with one of the other, there's merit in both and I don't think they're at odds with each other, but it's interesting thinking about this balance. And how people react in opposite ways to this feeling, that really resonates with me.
REM:
Thank you Parker and babyguava for bringing this up and being vulnerable about your feelings. because this is a very important point. I definitely do agree that I think with web3 in particular people are taking this blank canvas and instead of using the pieces of their identity like woman, trans etc instead of using sob stories they are using it for empowerment. Some people don't want to... there could be some trauma or experience that left nasty tastes in the mouth for them to be prideful of that, so I definitely amplify women, non binary, trans people, anybody, because i've lived as a black women but I'm now still non-binary so I've seen both sides, I've seen the misogyny against women but I've also seen people who present as masculine be put in a box. The disrespect for people who are non binary and people putting them in a box, the magic of web3 is that people are less and less putting them into these boxes. These groups are really helping denounce oh what is it like to be a women in crypto, everyone in here is themselves, we can't tell anybody else story. It's your personal attachment and your personal choice on how you wanna display that and communicate that to the world. If you wanna be loud and proud with it and create groups for it you can do that! But if you wanna stay in stealth of keep that as a personal, intimate part of your journey, then that's very much also fine. I appreciate this coming up as it's so important as we continue to be exposed and be vulnerable in this space, it's important to check in on peoples' emotions, because yeah we're digital but we're all still human and people with functioning lives outside of the computer. I love this conversation and I love being able to talk about these things because it's very important to me.
Alice:
Yeah this is super important and thank you all for sharing, it's really important to have this ongoing conversation. What resonated with me is this idea that on one hand it's amazing and super important that we create these intentional communities around assembling people who have certain experiences, but at the same time you don't want to be bucketed by this defining trait. This is something I've experienced outside of web3 as well as a woman doing techie things. In the end, I think these groups like Boys Club for me, it's a way in, it's not a final end point, it's a space for you to come and decide how you'd like to show up and what parts of you are important to bring into it. It's constantly evolving.
REM:
Can somebody share me the Boys Club info? I'm so interested!
Princesa:
Yes I would like to join Boys Club too!
Kes:
Woop woop! Thank you all so much for sharing we really appreciate you sharing your experiences and spending your time with us today. I'm gunna go ahead and ask one last question... I love that you bought up empowerment, REM and it's something me and Princes have discussed a lot throughout these conversations. So maybe we can all go round and share some ways we think we can continue to empower ourselves within these spaces? What would a fully inclusive web3 look like?
Princesa:
I just wanna say to all of us and anybody who resonates, anybody whose energy or spiritually connected whose not here, let's keep trusting our gut. Especially when it comes to speaking up about things that we're passionate about or changes we feel like need to happen. Specifically because I was unsure when I was talking about the things that happened in the space that started this research project. I was pretty unsure when sending those initial messages as to how the people in Protein were going to receive what I'm saying, and what happened is this project. So, even if we're unsure let's keep trusting out gut!
Parker:
I think we definitely need to keep the convo open, not being too set in old ways of doing things or how we think things should be done, or what's correct. Having an open mind, being open to being wrong, having tolerance for people who have different views and opinions from you is what is going to drive positive social change forward. I think we're living in a very polarised world right now, especially politically. Data shows that over the past decade there's been a strong decline in societal affiliation with religion and churches and at the same time a lack of affiliation with a particular political party which I think is really interesting. Keeping the convo open, calling people in rather than calling people out. Being open to learning new things. Keeping the vibes positive, which we're all doing!
Alice:
I think for me I would really love to see the conversation advance from onboarding and DEI to retention in the space. Because once you include people you want to make sure that the environment is sustainable for them once they're in. One of the big issues with the non web3 tech industry is once you get people through the door, how do you get them to stay and feeling like they want to stay? But yeah, keep sharing, keep connecting and converging, do more Anecdotal Archives!
REM:
I agree, definitely do more Anecdotal Archives! I love what Paker said about calling people in rather than calling people out, that really touched me. I think that's what's gunna fix or help people get out of that polarised mindset is when you be receptive and resilient to the strategies in that people move through life, like everyone is on their own path, I can't replicate what somebody else is doing, I can only listen to my gut and my internal voice and continue to amplify my value and my voice and stay connected to that. l And if you stay connected to that that is just gunna ripple out into the things and places, all of your experiences and events are going to reflect what's going on internally. So when you're at peace internally it's gunna keep replicating outside. Be you, be authentically you, keep showing up in those communities that allow you to be you. Listening to yourself, reigniting that fire of your voice and helping others to find theirs again and amplifying that. I think that's gunna solve so many problems in the future that exist now. People just want to be heard an understood, people want to showcase their voice, people want to speak words and our voice is how we communicate and how we feel understood. Listening to yourself, finding that wisdom in yourself and don't worry about anything else. Don't get in the way of yourself because everything is gunna ripple out, that positive energy will ripple out into the world around you. Yes, Anecdotal Archives!
Kes:
Thank you so much everybody for sharing all of your amazing experiences, taking the time and the energy. I love what you just said about nurturing other peoples' voices that's really beautiful and important.
[checking for last Qs]
Parker:
Thank you so much for hosting this and inviting us to speak here. It was a great discussion and what you're doing is amazing, I really appreciate everyone's voices and I appreciate the intention you're bringing to the crypto community.
Kes:
Thank you so much, everyone! All of these conversations have been so nourishing. We will be keeping you all updated on the next parts of the project.
REM:
Thanks so much everyone.
Alice:
Thank you for having me!
Princesa:
Thank you so much y'all have been amazing.
